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Pick a Seat: BART Lab Coming to a Town Near You

Patch gets a sneak preview of the mobile lab that BART will bring to communities so riders can try out seats for the new fleet of transit cars.

BART will be staging a sit-in of sorts over the next few months.

Between now and the beginning of summer, BART is bringing a mobile lab filled with seats of different heights, widths and materials to communities around the Bay Area.

The goal is to get feedback from commuters on what kind of seats they would like to see in a fleet of BART cars scheduled to start hitting the tracks in 2018.

"What I might like might be different from what the public might like," said BART Board President Bob Franklin. "So, we're going to get a range of opinions from a wide variety of people."

Patch was one of the media outlets that got a sneak preview of the seat lab Sunday at BART's offices in Oakland.

On Monday and Tuesday, senior citizens and disabled riders will test the seats at the BART offices.

After that, a sampling of the seats will be packed into a trailer and taken to at least nine communities over the next two months. The schedule for the lab tour hasn't been released yet.

The seats are divided into four groups.

One is seats of varying widths. Right now, BART seats are 22 inches wide, one of the widest of any transit agency in the world. The lab seats are 19 to 22 inches across. 

Another is seats of different heights. BART seats now are 16.5 inches high,  lower than most transit agencies.

The third is seat rows with different leg room. Currently, BART trains have 29 inches of leg room between seats. That is one of the most expansive among transit agencies.

The fourth is material. BART seats now are made of cloth, which is comfortable but difficult to clean. Earlier this year, lab tests showed bacteria and mold on BART seats, even after cleaning.

Possible replacement materials include vinyl and plastic. The balance is between cleanliness and comfort.

"We want to get seats that are easily cleanable but also as comfortable as possible," said Franklin.

The seats will be part of a $3.4 billion contract BART is awarding this year to build up to 1,000 transit cars.

The cars have to be built from scratch, so the seat specifications need to be figured out from the beginning.

BART has 660 cars on the rails. About 460 cars are originals from when BART opened in 1972. Two-hundred cars have been added over the years. Most of the cars were upgraded between 1995 and 1997.

"We're riding the wheels off of these things," said BART spokesman Linton Johnson.

BART expects its daily weekday ridership to increase from 350,000 to 500,000 over the next 12 years.

Johnson said the system needs a minimum of 700 cars to meet that demand with 1,000 cars a more likely figure.

Ten pilot cars are expected to be on the tracks in 2016. The first group will debut in 2018. The cars will then be added in stages until 2024.

BART directors right now are discussing how to spend a projected budget surplus this year of $10 million to $28 million, depending on how much money they get from the state.

This money will not be used on the new cars. However, it could be spent on new seat covers and other upgrades on the current fleet.

Mona Taplin April 25, 2011 at 02:40 pm
MRSA in meat, MRSA in schools, and now MRSA on BART seats. Even more lovely
Mona Taplin April 25, 2011 at 02:43 pm
Easily attached seats are also easily unattached and have a habit of walking away. You'd be surprised at how adept some people are in removing stuff even on a busy BART train.
Beverly Kral April 25, 2011 at 03:02 pm
And, since they are building the cars from scratch, maybe they will be running a little quieter? Residents can hear the cars for miles around. Let's work on that!
Nicholas April 25, 2011 at 03:21 pm
More room for people with bikes.
Mona Taplin April 25, 2011 at 03:32 pm
Thanks to Patch, there are lots of good ideas for BART to pick up on. I hope they are listening!
Robert Strauss April 25, 2011 at 03:33 pm
Having witnessed firsthand the number of substances sprayed, spilled, absorbed and deliberately discharged onto those seats for the past several years I prefer to stand. Better for the calf muscles.
Zolla April 25, 2011 at 04:31 pm
No different than anything else. Projected cost is always on the high side to ensure as much funding as possible from the state. Then it will go out for bid and will most likely be awarded to the lowest bidder which in turn will hit em with a bunch of change orders to make their profit margins. You also have to take into consideration that most if not all work will be done through union shops across the country even though a union shop might farm out a portion of the work to a non-union shop which increases their profit even more. In their budget to the state, they’ll have the most expensive union shops listed as worst case scenario; it would cost us x amount of dollars. It’s a big money game, and when it’s all said and done, each car will probably be around 2.1 m. Which if you ask me is still ridiculously over the top.
Jaime Roberto April 25, 2011 at 05:16 pm
Pick a seat? My dad told me never to pick my seat in public.
Tony Rodriguez April 25, 2011 at 05:49 pm
This is the organization that has a budget of $484M to build a 3 mile shuttle track between BART and Oakland Airport.
Diane McKee April 25, 2011 at 05:55 pm
I remind myself to put Vicks under my nose before riding a BART train. You can tell how old a train is by the intensity of the smell. I used to ride BART daily in the eighties and early nineties. When I ride it now, I am amazed by the noise level of everyone's music, even though they are wearing earphones. And the noise going through a tunnel! Has it always been this loud, or have I just become more sensitive?
Barry Kane April 25, 2011 at 07:22 pm
Never have been able to sit where I onboarded the train - either direction. The cloth seats can be quite nasty, so did not really miss sitting. I would say plastic seats, move them closer so more will fit and seat bottoms a bit higher.
Robert Strauss April 25, 2011 at 08:11 pm
Want a *real* thrill ride? Try taking Muni or AC Transit to get up close and personal with the masses. You haven't lived until you've had a woman diaper her baby next to you while you tried to keep from passing out.
Tim April 25, 2011 at 08:36 pm
You have to get rid of the carpet... stinks something awful. Everything should be smooth and easily cleanable... plastic probably makes the most sense. Even the filthy NYC MTA Subway cars are cleaner than BART.
Eileen April 25, 2011 at 09:13 pm
How about a purpose-build bike car on the back end of every train? You could pack more bicyclists in more safely (for bikes as well as humans) and allow bikes on every train in the system.
Eileen April 25, 2011 at 09:17 pm
Narrower plastic seats and better configuration to allow for more seats per car. Smooth "cushie" flooring for those who have to stand. Some vertical poles from aisle seat top to ceiling, for those standing in the aisles "in between" seats. Have BART designers look at the newest cars on the #6 subway line in NYC.
DEAN TANTI April 26, 2011 at 12:29 am
Instead of replacing the seats with all that budget money I have an idea, how about making Bart run 24-7?!
David April 26, 2011 at 12:44 am
Along with a sign OUTSIDE the fare area so that I can know when the tunnel is down to one track, no trains are stopping at Montgomery or whatever, instead of paying the fare and then finding out I'm going to be on the platform for an extra half hour.
David April 26, 2011 at 12:46 am
I take Muni and AC Transit when I feel like going more slowly than I could walk or ride my bike for the same distance. Sometimes, you just have to slooooow down and smell the...um...humanity.
Mona Taplin April 26, 2011 at 01:17 am
Why not both? I'd like to see it run 24/7
Tony Rodriguez April 26, 2011 at 02:08 am
Is there really a need to cover the roughly 3.5 hours when the system is down, from around 1 a.m. to 4:30 a.m.? It reminds me of "demand" in college for 24 hour study space, and then come to find out a handful of people used it in the wee hours. The system needs to be down for some period of time for maintenance. It doesn't have the demand of a NYC or Paris. I second EMP's suggestions.
Eileen April 26, 2011 at 03:18 am
Think outside your box! My spouse trades Asian stocks and, now that we've 'sprung forward' and New Zealand and Australia have 'fallen back' he needs a Bart train into SF from Orinda at 2p and another home betw 2-4am Sun-Thurs.
Tony Rodriguez April 26, 2011 at 03:33 am
Yikes. If the demand is there to cover at least a good portion of the costs, great.
Julie Mendelsohn April 26, 2011 at 10:58 am
BART does need to run 24/7. Go with easy to clean plastic and have our mass transit be on par with the rest of the developed world.
DEAN TANTI April 26, 2011 at 12:05 pm
All the peps who like to go to the city for the restaurants and bars at 2am would like a ride back home. So yes it should run 24-7 especially on the weekends!
jack freethy April 27, 2011 at 03:41 pm
24/7 can we afford it?, I doubt it. The issues is seats. What is the budget per seat? Or do we have a budget? Remember Our public services cost double to pay for the Public Employee Union benefits. Back to the seats. Is there a survey of the materials used in all the mass transit trains of the world. JAPaN,Paris, London, New York, Washington, Moscow Why not learn from their experiences. Back to the seats. We are spending double on the Bay Bridge to make it pretty and to improve the image of the Bay Area and yet we are considering Plastic Seats. BART Trains and stations create a good image of our community. Don't lose this image by a cheap looking interior. Can plastic look classy?
Mona Taplin April 27, 2011 at 04:18 pm
Yes sir, plastic can look classy and it's considerably more sanitary than fabric covered seats.
Eileen April 27, 2011 at 04:49 pm
London has cloth seats and these strange wooden slats on the floor. Seats are grotty and lots of dirt, etc gets trapped in the slats on the floor. Don't look to London for model. NYC, Paris, Boston all have plastic seats and more of them in a car. I dunno your definition of "classy" but I'd prefer clean.
David Mills (Editor) May 4, 2011 at 12:24 pm
I wanted to let everyone know that BART did finally get back to us on the question of the contract for the new fleet of train cars.
Yes, it is $3.4 billion for about 1,000 new cars. And, yes, it is $3.4 million per car. BART officials say that covers expenses from "design to delivery."
Mona Taplin May 4, 2011 at 12:31 pm
That is just too much money.
Leah Hall May 13, 2011 at 05:27 pm
Some of these comments reminded me about a terrific report I watched on Frontline a few months ago, called "Flying Cheaper."
-- A brief description of the program: "In a follow-up to Flying Cheap, the hard-hitting investigation into major airlines' outsourcing of flights to obscure regional airlines, FRONTLINE and the Investigative Reporting Workshop examine another growing trend: the outsourcing of major airline repair work to lower-cost independent maintenance operations in the U.S and abroad. Most major airlines outsource the majority of their heavy maintenance, some as much as 70 percent or more. "Maintenance traditionally has been sacrosanct. It was one area where the industry collectively said, 'No,' that's not something we can cut," says Bill McGee, a consumer advocate on the Department of Transportation's Future of Aviation advisory committee. "In recent years we've seen a change, and I don't think we've yet seen all the manifestations of that change." -- http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flying-cheaper/etc/introduction.html

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